Re: [vps-mail] !nouser problems

["Andy McKell, FOCUS Internet" <mac@xxxxxxxx>]

At 03:41 PM 3/16/2005 +0100, you wrote:

> Accepting and then bouncing (bounce!=reject) puts you at risk of getting
> yourself listed in widely used public DNSBLs (and countless private, local
> DNSBLs) due to backscatter sent to spam traps.For example:
> http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/329.html#bounces

I've been considering the practicalities of your website briefing - new 
readers take a look - and I'd like to explore SpamCop's thinking to try to 
understand.

1. If an online order is placed or someone asks to sign up for a mailing 
list, the provider may send an email asking for confirmation or sending  a 
password. If a fake email address is used and the recipient complains to 
SpamCop - is this spam? Aren't the provider's intentions clear - i.e. 
asking for confirmation to avoid the email address being misused?

2. If I go on vacation, I can no longer use a nice autoreply with a warm, 
commercially-sensitive and informative message, but must  use:-
to:oldaddress@xxxxxxxxxxx 550 my message

Have you actually seen what the sender gets back?
I see "failure", "permanent fatal errors"," User unknown"..... really not 
"happy", positive words - just a bunch of negatives
I see my actual message squeezed in between "this guy no longer exists" 
messages and it just looks like stray text.
I see strings of codes which are meaningful to technical people, but to a 
commercially-minded, GUI person, it just looks a mess.
In fact, it looks just like what the sender sees when someone's spamming in 
his name and he gets a million bounces - and they are instant 
"bin-without-reading" mails!

In Outlook:-

> The original message was received at Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:59:04 +0100 (CET)
> from vodsl-4204.vo.lu [80.90.54.108]
>
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <<mailto:fred@xxxxxxx>fred@xxxxxxx>
>     (reason: 550 5.0.0 <<mailto:fred@xxxxxxx>fred@xxxxxxx>... Fred Smith 
> is on vacation until 17th March.Please see 
> <http://focus.lu/hosting>http://focus.lu/hosting for details)
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> ... while talking to scan.lu.:
> >>> DATA
> <<< 550 5.0.0 <<mailto:fred@xxxxxxx>fred@xxxxxxx>... Fred Smith is on 
> vacation until 17th March.Please see 
> <http://focus.lu/hosting>http://focus.lu/hosting for details
> 550 5.1.1 <<mailto:fred@xxxxxxx>fred@xxxxxxx>... User unknown
> <<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)

In Eudora:-

> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
> To: <mac@xxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
> Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
>
> The original message was received at Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:48:39 +0100 (CET)
> from vodsl-4204.vo.lu [80.90.54.108]
>
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <fred@xxxxxxx>
>     (reason: 550 5.0.0 <fred@xxxxxxx>... Fred Smith is on vacation until 
> 17th March.Please see http://focus.lu/hosting for details)
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> ... while talking to scan.lu.:
> >>> DATA
> <<< 550 5.0.0 <fred@xxxxxxx>... Fred Smith is on vacation until 17th 
> March.Please see http://focus.lu/hosting for details
> 550 5.1.1 <fred@xxxxxxx>... User unknown
> <<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
> Reporting-MTA: dns; focus.lu
> Received-From-MTA: DNS; vodsl-4204.vo.lu
> Arrival-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:48:39 +0100 (CET)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-53315B7F

Can you really say this is a sensible suggestion which image-minded 
organisations would follow for any reason other than you'll jump on them if 
they don't follow your rules?

Andy

At 03:41 PM 3/16/2005 +0100, you wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:56:17 +0100, "Andy McKell, FOCUS Internet"
> <mac@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Is my recipe or the server at fault?
> >
> > >:0
> > >* This is spam
> > >!nouser
>
> Your recipe is at fault. If there is no local account called "nouser" then
> you are trying to send mail to a non-existent account, which *will* result
> in a postmaster notify.
>
> If you want certain pieces of mail not to be received then you need to
> handle this in your access, sendmail.cf (DNSBLs) and virtusertable access
> control lists and REJECT the inbound mail at the SMTP level rather than
> accept it only to realise later that you shouldn't have. This kind of
> triage should really be done *before* the mail gets anywhere near procmail.
>
> Accepting and then bouncing (bounce!=reject) puts you at risk of getting
> yourself listed in widely used public DNSBLs (and countless private, local
> DNSBLs) due to backscatter sent to spam traps. For example:
>
> http://www.spamcop.net/fom-serve/cache/329.html#bounces
>
> Alternatively, you can route the unwanted mail to the bitbucket:
>
> :0
> * This is spam
> /dev/null
>
> - --
> G. Stewart - gstewart@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Reporter (to Mahatma Gandhi):
>   "Mr. Gandhi, what do you think of Western civilisation?"
> Gandhi:
>   "I think it would be a good idea."
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